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• Kelli on The World Poker Tour
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Full Transcript

(SPEAKER: Lisa Johnson Smith, Host)

Lisa: They say that “life is a gamble, but you have to be in it to win it.” And this week’s Walkthrough guest is living proof. Her name is Kelli Griggs, and she owns the number-one boutique real estate agency in El Dorado Hills, California. But to get there, she had to play her cards right. After 20 successful years in finance, Kelli says that she felt underrepresented as a woman and wanted to gain the respect of the movers and shakers who happened to be, well, men.

She was faced with two choices, she says. Either learn to play golf or learn to play poker. But her choice may surprise you because Kelli didn’t hire a golf pro. She hired a poker coach, bet on herself, and won. Like, literally. She won the World Poker Tournament. Is that crazy or what? Well, that is someone who wants to win at everything. And now, Kelli’s winning at real estate. So on today’s show, she’s gonna share the pros, cons, and pitfalls to avoid when building your own successful boutique brokerage. This is The Walkthrough.

(INTRO MUSIC)

Hey there, I’m Lisa Johnson Smith. Welcome to The Walkthrough. This is a weekly show. New episodes come out every Monday. This is the show where you’ll learn what’s working right now from the best real estate agents and industry experts in the country. At HomeLight, we believe in real estate agents. We’re here to explore how great agents grow their business, stand out from the crowd, and become irreplaceable. Today I’m talking to Kelli Griggs. Not only is she the CEO and co-founder of Navigate Realty, she’s also one of the founding partners of Side.

On today’s episode, Kelli shares the keys to starting a successful boutique brokerage. You’ll hear her talk about all the mistakes she made that you can avoid, the pros and cons of building a big-box brokerage versus a boutique brokerage, how to become someone you’d want to work for, and how to hire the right team, what it takes to become an egoless leader, and you’ll also hear exactly how she managed to win the World Poker Tournament.

Here’s my conversation with Kelli Griggs.

(BEGIN CONVERSATION)

Kelli: First, let me backtrack and say that I actually am the daughter of a real estate broker. So, I started showing houses just like many of our listeners who have family in the business really young. And I swore that I would never do it because I didn’t wanna work for the family business. And I went into a completely different career. I was in finance for 20 years. And at the time, you had to have something in common with the C-suite to kind of get elevated in your position. And that was poker or golf. And I sucked at golf.

And so I hired a poker coach. And I relentlessly pursued getting really good at poker, either to get some accolades in it, or just to be good enough to play with the boys. And in the process of this, I asked the coach, I said, “You know, what are your ambitions for poker?” And I guess at the time, the most prestigious thing was to be on the World Poker Tour televised event. And I said, “Okay, well then, I’ll do that.” And he’s like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve been playing poker for 20 years, and there’s thousands of people in the field, and don’t count on that.” And I said, “Well, do you wanna make a wager?”

And I bet him that I could get on the TV table of a World Poker tour event within six months, and if I did, he had to give me back the very costly poker lessons. And I did. I set out a plan, and I started playing tournaments and became very good. And it kind of killed a lot of birds with one stone. Number one, I got all my coaching fees back, I made a lot of money, and I was able to invite that C-suite to come watch me on the televised show, which gave everybody lots of things to talk about back in the office. And later, I did get that promotion.

Lisa: And, wait. Did you win this tournament?

Kelli: I did. I had to… I did. I am officially a World Poker Tour champion.

Lisa: That is absolutely insane. Okay, who does this? You’re in finance, okay. And then all of a sudden you’re like, “Okay, well, I don’t like golf. I like…okay, poker. Yeah, I’m gonna hire a poker coach.” Like, who does that?

Kelli: It was very, very fun. I’ll just tell you that I am super competitive, and I’m really good at reading people.

Lisa: Wow. That’s incredible. What a story. All right. So, what happened after that? So, you get in poker, you get into the room with these people that you’re trying to get into the room with, and then what?

Kelli: Yeah. So I was able to advance my career because I had something cool that got me noticed, right? And the next thing I know, I am entering the market, and it is starting to crash. So, you remember when the entire mortgage industry crashed, and I, you know, was during that time, I actually had poker to fall back on.

You know, back then, it was almost impossible to get a job if you were in finance. The banks were closing. I mean, it was just really a very difficult time, and I had a very lucrative position, and there was nothing that I could do in my local market to make that kind of money. So, I started flying to Vegas or LA on the weekends, and I would play, and it was the way that I helped support our family.

Lisa: How long did you do that?

Kelli: I played professionally for about a year and a half. And I made a decent income at it, but I had no joy in it. Remember, it was just something fun to break a glass ceiling. It was never supposed to be a career. And, also, that world is very different than reality, that poker world.

Lisa: So, how did you transition back into real estate after the market crashed and you are now…poker is your source of income?

Kelli: So, I was traveling with a bunch of highly intelligent people. And you have to realize these poker buy-ins are $10,000 a game, right? So if you’re getting knocked out, you’ve committed to be there for a week. And your crew, the people that you travel with, you have all these conversations. And a lot of them were from Silicon Valley. And we would be talking about projects that were being funded. And I was really learning, in those get-knocked-out hours, about the way that Silicon Valley worked.

And I began thinking I could have all these ideas. And one of the people that I was counseled with was a partner at K&L Gates law firm. And he just said, “I really think you should do real estate.” And I was like, “I know.” So, about 25 years after my father told me I would be the world’s most incredible real estate agent, I became her. And I came back. And when I entered back into that world, remember I was my dad’s assistant for a really long time, nothing had changed. I mean, nothing.

Here I was seeing massive technological advances in every other industry but real estate. And I got really excited about change. So I would identify the problem. I would write a solution. And I began doing all the things that I learned in those after-hours conversations. And I put together a really cool business plan, and I was solving some problems, took it down to Silicon Valley, and I had one of those little, like what you would see on Shark Tanks. I had a presentation in front of a VC and I actually got funded.

And so, here I am with a successful real estate practice. I have two young daughters, playing poker on the side a little bit. And now I’m on the phone all night long with coders in India, whiteboarding out all these ideas. It was really an intense time for me.

Lisa: Yes, I can definitely see how that would be intense. Wow. But this turned into something else, right?

Kelli: Well, so, the next thing I know, another connection through that poker world was a vice president of Silicon Valley Bank, and he heard of a tech startup company that was doing something a little bit similar, and he made the introduction to Guy Gal and Ed Wu. And that began my beginning relationship with Side and a dear friend named Hilary Saunders.

Lisa: What took you from the start of your company, your success, to a whole different level of success? Was it the technology that you helped to create?

Kelli: In those early years at Side, there were 10 of us in a room, with the engineers behind us, and we were dreaming of building this great real estate company. And we were giving them all the ideas, and the coders were making it come to life. And so, that really started my journey.

And after a few years of really adding input in that, I saw some of the lives that we were changing through this company and how they were literally doubling their sales. And I pulled back to my dream of starting my own company, which is Navigate Realty, and I focused all my energy in building Navigate. And that’s where you see those great, big giant leaps and bounds in numbers and production.

Lisa: All right. Well, let’s talk more about Side in a minute. But how did you end up starting your own boutique firm?

Kelli: I knew that I wanted to have something that was all my own, right? I knew that I had a lot of stock inside, and it was going to be a huge success, but I wanted something that was just all my own company. And I wanted to take all of the things that I was learning, watching that company be created, and create it for myself as well.

And I knew that if I could just give something that was truly a value to agents in my area, that I could have magic, right? So I wanted to provide that world-class technology that was being created, but I also wanted to have this amazing, life-changing culture and five-star service that I felt was lacking in my market. So, I really took the time and started to focus just on that.

I wanted to remove the FOMO from agents’ lives. A lot of times, we’re being solicited all the time with, “Buy this new app. Buy this new lead generation system.” And we get kind of taken off course. But there’s this fear that if we don’t answer the phone and we don’t have those conversations, we could miss a really important opportunity.

I wanted people to feel like they were part of a community and that their voices were heard. And so I sat down, and I wrote this crazy manifesto, kind of like my own Jerry Maguire moment, of exactly the way that I wanted my company to be. And I just decided to go for it and open it.

Lisa: Okay. But it didn’t come easy because you had to overcome some pitfalls, which we wanna, our listeners to know because people out there who are looking to start their own brokerage who may think, like you initially thought, “Okay, let me just hire the first nice person that comes through the door.” There’s so much more to it. So talk to me about that. What do agents need to look out for, and what should they not do when they are looking to start a brokerage?

Kelli: That’s such a good question. So, I really feel missional about telling people about this because if you want to have your own company, you have to be good at so many things, right? You have to bring in lead generations. You have to be great at hiring. You have to be great at education. You have to be great at recruiting. There’s just so many things that it encompasses.

However, there’s so many rewards to actually building it because once you kind of get it right, it’s truly magical. I do wanna be honest and share that I did fall on my face about 30 times. Made so many mistakes. And the first mistake I think I made is not understanding my personality before I started. I would take those DiSC profile tests and didn’t really give it much merit. And now I wholeheartedly believe in them, and I use them before I hire anyone.

Like so many top-producing real estate agents, I’m a super high “D” and a super high “i,” which means you are professionally bipolar. People approaching you, they don’t know if they’re gonna be talking to your high “D,” which I call my Darth Vader, or my high “i,” which is, I call my Han Solo. So I had to get some help. So just like I hired a poker coach to help me with that, I hired a coach to really help me understand emotional intelligence and how to be an egoless leader. And once I did that, the doors opened up for me, and everything changed.

Lisa: I love that. And that’s a huge part of your business. Probably the cornerstone of your business is egoless leadership. Because when I heard about your, oh my gosh, just the kitchen, and the how you cook every day, like, that is just incredible. Talk to the listeners about what you do to create such a positive culture in your company every single day.

Kelli: So, the first step is when you really know yourself, and you really know the people, and you’re taking time to listen, you’re mastering your superpower, right? My superpower has always been that I am really good at whatever I commit my focus and my attention to do. Well, if your focus is to close deals, that’s what you’re gonna do. If your focus is to help people, that’s what you’re gonna do.

So, after about two and a half years of coaching, I had to coach the ego out of me. I really feel like I evolved into a really good leader. I really feel that culture is my superpower. We kind of have a…

Lisa: One second, I hate to cut you off because this is really important what you’re about to say. So, don’t forget that. But I wanted to hear, you said you had to coach the ego out of you. What do you mean by that? Because there are a lot of agents who are walking around, you know, I’m sure our listeners are like, that’s part of how they become successful, believing in themselves, and having a certain amount of arrogance, or confidence. What does that mean for you?

Kelli: Well, let’s be clear, Lisa, that ego and confidence are two completely different things. And if you’re a high D, like me, and you’re someone who likes to win, like me, we win for the accolades. When I was a brand new agent, I worked so hard to be the top producer, rookie of the year, so that I could walk across that stage and get the plastic trophy that that company made me pay for. We are so driven by getting on stage and having others see us. And the reality is, is that they’re so focused on other people seeing them that nobody really cares.

And so confidence is not needing anyone to know that you are the top producer in your office and being happy with that. So, it’s really been this eye-opening experience to kind of set people free from what other people think of them. And so, the coaching to become an egoless leader means to lead by ear, to listen to what people need, to take that hard criticism, to try and adjust your company so that it’s more inclusive for everyone.

Lisa: Let’s talk about some of the things that you do that have helped your boutique brokerage to be successful that other agencies don’t do.

Kelli: Well, you know that I have a small micro-farm. And so, gardening is just a huge part of my life. And when I was younger, I was a chef. So, those are things that are unique to me. That’s really who I am and what I love to do. So I bring that into my company. We got a warehouse, we gutted it, and we made it kind of like a home. We’ve got a big kitchen, a commercial kitchen, that’s the heart of our company, and we provide meals during the day.

So, at lunchtime, the Navman, which is our core leadership team, we all pop up. We believe many hands make work light, and we work together to prepare a family meal, just like in a restaurant, if you ever came from the restaurant industry. And we have family meal, which is a great time to sit down, break bread, talk about all the things that are going on, not just professionally but personally. And when you’re making that time, we all gotta eat, right? We might as well sit down and utilize that time.

Everybody has the option of leaving and taking a lunch break, and nobody does. Everybody wants to be a part of what we’re creating here. So I go out to the farm, bring in fresh veg, fresh herbs, tomatoes, eggs, whatever we need, and we prepare it that day.

Lisa: So, you’re telling me, Kelli, that your management team stops everything they’re doing in the middle of the day, every day, to prepare a meal for all of the agents in your office. What does that do for the agents? I mean, that’s wonderful. What’s the cost like for you?

Kelli: You know, it’s less than you think. We are doing that at about $10 per person. And so, for the cost of a handful of people going out to lunch, we’re feeding the masses. Half the ingredients are free because of the farm.

Lisa: Wow. That’s incredible.

Kelli: I wish we could show the listeners the pictures of the food because it looks like a five-star Michelin restaurant.

Lisa: No, I’ve seen your pictures, and it really…the presentation alone is just, by far, so impressive.

(SHORT MUSIC TRANSITION)

Lisa: Now, let’s get back to the conversation. So, what are the pitfalls? Go into some of the other things that you recommend someone implement when they are building a brokerage like yours.

Kelli: I think the pitfalls are not taking time before you start to really understand what kind of time constraints you are going to have when you start your own boutique company. I was starting my own brokerage while I was actually talking to Guy and Ed, and Hilary about starting Side.

And so, literally, everything that I wanted, I wanted compliance taken care of. I wanted legal taken care of. I wanted my marketing stack to be taken care of. I wanted the technology. I wanted a bubble around me if I ever had any legal problems. I wanted all of that, and they literally built it for me. So, I cannot go out on my own and hire the staff and the resources to do all of those things for me for less than what I pay Side.

I feel like I get the best of both worlds. I get to own my business, Navigate Realty, one hundred percent. I’m a corporation. It’s all mine. And I outsource the brokerage portion to Side.

So, the difference, if, let’s compare it to, say, all of the other big-box companies that are out there that are allowing you to have your brand powered by their brand. Okay? So, the difference is so minute, but it is so grand. You always have to submit to their culture, their logo, on absolutely everything you do. It’s really an underlying essence from the way that they want you to recruit or the way that they want you to locate their logo on your business card.

I wanted complete freedom. I didn’t want anyone involved in my business. I wanted them to work for me, not me to work for them. So in my business now, I can solely focus on the things that I love, which is the culture part of it.

If I was bogged down with all of the other things that I’m outsourcing, I probably would’ve gone under very quickly. So now, that is the way that I’ve been able to have the massive growth to go from $20 million to $200 million. Yes, I look like I’m a little solo office here in El Dorado Hills, California and Placerville, California.

But the reality is that I’ve got an army behind me in Silicon Valley that’s really helping me with the things that I don’t wanna do, so I can purely focus on the things that I do want to do, which is give better customer service to people who are buying and selling and better customer service to agents who choose to hold their license at Navigate Realty.

Lisa: So, you’re saying that, have that back office support, that is huge for you. It’s helped you to achieve the success you’ve achieved. But what about for those people who are listening and saying, “Well I don’t have a partner like Side. How am I supposed to get this back-office support?” Where does that come from?

Kelli: Good luck. Good luck to you, sir. Good luck to you, ma’am. I don’t know. I think it’s really tricky because it’s so much. Let’s just look at my life right now, with having someone do all of that for me. Because the compliance piece is a lot. So, we have something called the Side app, and everything is audited and reviewed.

Lisa: What about a virtual assistant for all your back office stuff? A lot of people are doing that now.

Kelli: Sure. We’ve tried that. You know, it’s not as easy as it sounds. You just have to really identify all the roles and figure out if it’s financially worth it for you to have your own boutique brokerage or if it’s better for you to be a team at a big box.

And so let’s talk about the pros and cons of that. Okay? My father was a real estate broker for many years, and when he retired, he sold his book of business, and it was heavily devalued. I mean, the guy was lucky to get a quarter referral fee on the book of business, and then eventually, those referrals of those referrals become the other person’s clients, and you get nothing.

I’ve actually built a company. And the goal, of course, is to be acquired someday by a big national company, which will allow me to have a nice exit strategy.

Lisa: So if you are just a team at a big brokerage, what are the cons there?

Kelli: So the con might be that you wouldn’t have an asset to sell. You might only have a book of business to sell when you were to retire out. And I know there’s a lot of young agents out there, and they might not think that that’s valuable. But let me tell you. Been doing this a while now, and I tell my agents, “If you spend 10 years pushing a boulder uphill, doing all the hard work and all the lead gen, you’ll spend the rest of your career running from it.”

So, while other people in the industry right now are really struggling with listings, they’re struggling with getting business, our phones consistently ring. And we’re doing very well. Yes, we’re down from last year a little bit, but we’re still really busy comparatively. Another con might be that there’s brand confusion for the consumer. Like, right now, in my market, I’m loving it because so many people are at one company that they’re really…customer doesn’t really see a difference, right?

You’re like, “Oh, you’re a team at such and such.” Because that’s really how I started. I was Navigate Realty, powered by a big-box brokerage. And that brand confusion, it just, to people who were actually CEOs, it looked like it was not authentic, right? So, that could be one negative. Now, some people don’t have any problem with that, but that just might be one con. So, another con might be that, let’s say, you’re a team and all of a sudden you go from $20 million to $50 million to $100 million. And you’re this particular team, but every deal you close is building the corporation, not your individually-owned business.

So, when I do go to sell, if I decide to sell, I have a long history of ownership, where I am slowly working to move myself out of. So, for example, in 2021, or 2020, I did $110 million in my personal book. And then last year, I took it to $80 million of my personal book. And this year, I’m looking to do $70 million of my personal book so that I can slowly start to make my company something of value that’s not based on Kelli Griggs closing deals.

Lisa: Is there anything else that you wanna add to the must-haves if you want to be successful with your own boutique brokerage?

Kelli: Yeah. You have to have the right team. My inside leadership team is incredible. You have to…they have to love your agents as much as you love your agents. And they also have to have the right working dynamics with you to be able to be led and then also to lead you.

Because there are so many times when my director of operations, her name is Jordan, she’ll just tell me, “No. We are not doing that.” You know, and that’s good because people like me, I’m a dreamer, and I love creativity and new ideas, but you definitely need somebody that’s a little opposite of you to kind of rein you in when you want to do crazy, exciting, fun things.

The other thing is culture. Let’s dive into culture just a little bit more. So, you know about the meals and all of that. But we also do company events, all the time. We do at least two a year.

One, everyone comes to my house for the 3rd of July. We open that up. It’s a potluck, and we watch the fireworks over Town Center. We invite our top clients to join us. Last year we did fun things at the ranch, like axe throwing. We had a horse-drawn carriage, rides around the farm.

We have events every month, once a month, where all of the agents come in. We have that family meal together, and then we learn, and we grow. And we up what we know about the real estate industry, from things like emotional intelligence, where we’re teaching agents how to look for non-verbal cues and body language, so that they can see if a customer is uncomfortable and listening.

And then the biggest part of what we have is helping other people understand the benefits of technology. So many real estate agents are technology-resistant, and I’ve gotta tell you, I was that girl too. But most of everything we’re focused on this year is bringing every single person into faithfully using our CRM, faithfully using all of our marketing tools, so that they can become just as successful as my team.

Lisa: Well, if I had to sum it up, everything that I’ve heard from you today, Kelli, it would be that anyone looking to start a boutique brokerage should not look at it as just a business but as their life.

Kelli: I think that there has to be a healthy balance of it being your everything. It’s not my everything. It’s my everything between 9 am and 6 pm, to be honest. And I make it as amazing as I can between those hours. But my family, my relationship with my savior, those are my everything. And I wanna be crystal clear about that.

The farm, that’s super important to me too. And so, I just give, when I’m in that work environment, I give it everything I have, passionately. So, you know, when I do something, I don’t do it halfway or dip my toe in the water. I give it my hundred percent. So, I would clarify that by saying if you’re going to start a boutique brokerage, you need to develop a boutique brokerage that works for you and your lifestyle. First, figure out your why. Why do you want to start a boutique brokerage?

Mine was borne from the pain of nothing like what I wanted existing. There wasn’t a single brokerage in my market that had killer technology, amazing marketing, hands-down the best agents in town. The offices that I had previously worked at, it was every man for themselves. I would take a phone call, and I would almost want to whisper because the agent sitting next to me is trying to write down the property address because they wanna compete against me for that listing.

So we have truly, like I said, taken the ego out of it, and we’re one hundred percent open share. We actually say, “We exploit each other’s greatnesses.” What that means by, if somebody is really good at social marketing, that person is showing to the rest of the company how to get better in that arena.

If somebody is really good at their systems and their tools, we exploit that agent. “Hey, tell us what you’re doing here. How can we make that to the benefit of all?” So, if you are wanting to build your own boutique brokerage, what is your superpower? What do you do that’s different from everyone else? Sit down, get relentlessly clear, write out a plan, and then go for that.

Be meticulous to hire the right kind of people that get your vision, that want to walk alongside of you, and then develop it. And walking with people who are doing things at a higher level than you is a great secret if you are starting your own boutique brokerage because it opens your eyes up that not every single person’s core values, their mission statements, what they want their brokerage to be, is similar to yours in any way. But they’re all thriving. They’re all doing excellent work.

(SHORT MUSIC TRANSITION)

Lisa: Well, there you have it. Everything you need to know about building a successful boutique brokerage. If you’d like to connect with Kelli Griggs, you can follow her on all the socials, and I’ll leave links to those in the show notes as usual. Kelli also has a monthly newsletter that you can sign up for, and I’ll leave a link to that as well.

And, just for kicks, if you’d like to see Kelli in action at the poker table, I’m going to include a link to that, to watch Kelli at the ladies’ night World Poker Tour final table. It’s so cool to see her call someone’s bluff, and she really does have a great poker face. You’ve gotta see this.

Anyway, let’s get to our takeaways segment. Here’s what stood out to me from Episode 113, “The Pros, Cons, and Pitfalls to Avoid to Build a Top-Producing Boutique Agency.”

Takeaway number one: Figure out your why and your superpower. Why do you want to build this brokerage? Write it down, and be very clear on your vision. And also, clearly define your core values so that you attract like-minded people who wanna walk alongside of you and believe in your vision. Know yourself, and take time to master that superpower, no matter what it is. Whether it’s closing deals or helping people, focus on that.

Takeaway number two: When building a boutique brokerage, be sure to have back-office support. Kelli obviously uses Side, as she’s one of the founders, to handle all of her back-office needs. But if you don’t have Side as an option, hire an assistant or a VA that can help with tasks that take you away from developing your business.

Takeaway number three: Hire the right team. That means not hiring people because they’re nice and most likely hiring someone not like yourself. This way, you’ll have the advantage of seeing things from different perspectives. Then, learn to exploit your team members’ strengths. So, if someone’s great at technology or social media, have them share it with the team. This creates a cohesive team rather than a competitive environment.

Takeaway number four: Understand the cons of a big-box brokerage versus a boutique brokerage. Kelli says those are: not having an asset to sell when you’re ready to retire, brand confusion for customers because you’re kind of forced into being labeled with other agents who are part of that big-box brand, and realize that you’re building someone else’s company, not your own. And those are your takeaways for this week.

If you have any questions or feedback, you can send an email to walkthrough[at]homelight.com. You can also find me in our Facebook Mastermind group. Just search “HomeLight Walkthrough.” Oh, and one last thing. If you could take the time to rate us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, that would be awesome. And hit that follow button so you get all of our future shows automatically.

Well, that’s all for this week. Thanks to Kelli Griggs for joining me, and thank you for listening. My name’s Lisa Johnson Smith, and you’ve been listening to The Walkthrough. At HomeLight, we believe in real estate agents. We’re here to explore how great agents grow their business, stand out from the crowd, and become irreplaceable. Now, get out there and make some moves. I’ll talk to you again next week.